Curse

Rodococoloco · Nov 15, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

I just read the comments by Gaile Gray, and I am SURPRISED.

ANet never inteded for PvE to be different from PvP? They are trying to make PvE and PvP so alike that they be considered ONE GAME instead of TWO? Um... WHY???

I LOVE the idea of having these 2 worlds - one against humans, one against baddies. I LOVE the idea of needing different strategies for each one... so WHY would you want to take one of them away? It makes no sense.

As far as the recent patches go, I'm all FOR 'em (although they do need to be tweaked so that some spells aren't completely useless), but I LIKE the challenge! I changed my heavy-damage Elemental builds to compensate, paid more attention to teamwork, and made it through the desert trials and ascension just fine (adaptation gives a sense of acomplishment people, give it a try)... but I still think making PvE == PvP is a HUGE mistake. Yes, the monsters should be smarter, it's a welcomed challenge, but don't waste your time trying to bridge the gap between PvE and PvP... leave those two DIFFERENT experiences that require different strategies and different builds... after all, what's the point of having access to hundreds of spells if the same builds / strategies work ALL the time? Just like these patches have forced serious gamers to look at skills they NEVER used before ("serious gamers" being those whom haven't quit the game just because they can't farm griffons anymore), having two different environments gives us the opportunity to develope different solutions to different problems.

IMHO
- imediate problem - AoE DoT spells (i.e. fire storm) are useless.
- long term problem - PvE should NOT be the same as PvP.

I love the game, I love the new challenges (smarter baddies), I love having PvE and PvP seperate.

Thanks for reading this.

Age · Nov 15, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I have to say this update is ugly and the henchies are worse than befre especially Orion.

Mister Overhill · Nov 15, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

After trying this out for a few days, solo and with teammates, I've concluded that GW is still in beta, and still one of the best game purchases I have ever made (and that's saying a lot).

It's obvious that it needs a great deal of work, but we'll keep playing. My thoughts are that they are trying to get some things worked out before the expansion is released.

onewolf · Nov 15, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

i am shocked at how much this patch has ruined GW for me. just plain shocked.

this patch (as has already been said by so many others) has basically made several skills worthless. firestorm can just be removed from the game altogether, since it is now useless in pve (it already is pretty much in pvp).

any smiting skills w/duration are shot. since many dont use them in pvp, you can basically just remove them from the game altogether.

i don't farm, and i don't pvp. i just like playing pve. now, i think its time for a break. i have played this game for hundreds of hours, and was eagerly anticipating the expansion. no longer.

over the months i've played, i never, NEVER felt that any of the changes made RUINED the game. i actually liked most of them. no i'm just appalled. its over. no more GW.

Batou of Nine · Nov 15, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

AH. just play a bit. i got used to it after they tweaked a bit more on Nov. 11.

Since, AI no longer acts like headless chickens (most of the time), AoE isnt alltogether useless anymore, just must be more carefully casted, and used best in conjuction with a snare.

I was also so pissed when the Nov.10 patch came. Now that i been playing and getting a feel for the changes, they arent actually all that bad anymore. Farming, which i DO do every so often, was pretty much my only income base for things, which will now be that much harder to afford ANYTHING, but oh well, i just hope Chapter 2 does enough to change many things...

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 15, 2005, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I seen that people used AoE spells when the enemies health is down by half or more. Basically people used AoE spells to finish the fight instead of starting it. Is that a bad idea to do as a nuking elementlist like myself?

delfin42 · Nov 15, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodococoloco

I LOVE the idea of having these 2 worlds - one against humans, one against baddies. I LOVE the idea of needing different strategies for each one... so WHY would you want to take one of them away? It makes no sense.

If you think that patched PvE AI (with or without further tweaking) will ever approach the actual PvP experience, you've never played actual PvP. (That's not to say that one or the other is better, though I have my own bias.)

Actual human players will always be "the most dangerous game" and far more capable of coordinated action than monster bots, with the bots being given improved reaction times and higher stats and numbers to compensate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewolf

this patch (as has already been said by so many others) has basically made several skills worthless. firestorm can just be removed from the game altogether, since it is now useless in pve (it already is pretty much in pvp).

The "pretty much in PvP" part is the only phrase in this paragraph that is accurate.

onewolf · Nov 15, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by delfin42

the "pretty much in PvP" part is the only phrase in this paragraph that is accurate.

really? care to explain the inaccuracy?

i realize now that i missed several other skills that were totally destroyed, like chaos storm for example. feel free to clue me in.

kareel · Nov 15, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewolf

really? care to explain the inaccuracy?

i realize now that i missed several other skills that were totally destroyed, like chaos storm for example. feel free to clue me in.

I use firestorm, and to a greater degree its watery cousin Maelstrom a LOT in PVP.

It's made a major difference in a large number of fights.

delfin42 · Nov 15, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewolf

really? care to explain the inaccuracy?

Not being able to use AoE skills in the exact same manner you used them a week ago does NOT equate to them being "worthless" and "useless" and "totally destroyed." How? Use a little imagination.

prinnydood · Nov 15, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

If you think about it...some AoE spells can even be used to save certain allies or protect them...what if 3 Ettins are ganging up on your monk? Using Glyph of Sacrifice and Meteor Shower/Firestorm can let the monk retreat.

I'm not saying spells like those should necessarily have to be used like that...but it is an example of new ways to use old skills...I for one like it!

Phoenix Ex · Nov 15, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

No those skills not destroyed, but they are rendered so ineffective that it is not worth their casting cost, time, and recharge. For example, I used Firestorm today in conjunction with a water ele, now instead of the abysmal 3 hits, I got 6...around the same damage as a phoenix/fireball, now who will choose those skills over fireball and other one hit aoe, especially since you NEED support from snare to do anything?

Then there are those skill that are specifically made for stationary targets, like maelstrom and chaos storm, and those are really destroyed. Then there are the point blank duration aoe like symbol of wrath, and lava font, which already have pathetic durations, and this update shortens their duration even more that its not worth putting on the skill bar.

If their only purpose is to scare monsters away...I seriously doubt anyone would waste spots on their bar for them, when they can bring other much effective solutions

kbealow · Nov 15, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Ok I have something else to say.

Instead of nerfing everything how about that 15k tormenter armor. I mean lets focus on the important issues at hand. It's the only one left. How about it Anet?

Guardian of the Light · Nov 15, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

No those skills not destroyed, but they are rendered so ineffective that it is not worth their casting cost, time, and recharge. For example, I used Firestorm today in conjunction with a water ele, now instead of the abysmal 3 hits, I got 6...around the same damage as a phoenix/fireball, now who will choose those skills over fireball and other one hit aoe, especially since you NEED support from snare to do anything?

Then there are those skill that are specifically made for stationary targets, like maelstrom and chaos storm, and those are really destroyed. Then there are the point blank duration aoe like symbol of wrath, and lava font, which already have pathetic durations, and this update shortens their duration even more that its not worth putting on the skill bar.

If their only purpose is to scare monsters away...I seriously doubt anyone would waste spots on their bar for them, when they can bring other much effective solutions

I created a Snarer Build http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=80081
One of the Guys 1. Got a better build then me 2. CAme up with a good combo. Have a look.

Frank The Tank · Nov 15, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

I am truly amazed at the sudden turn the game just took, over 20 of my guild members have left the game and stated on our guild forums that they are sick of the game and the constant nerfing. This is truly discouraging, but is probably happening elsewhere in the game also with other guilds. One walk through Lions Arch and it's a virtual ghost town now.

Is there anyway to get a statistic on pre-patch population and current day? It would be interesting to see the drop %. I can truly say my guild is at 25% of what it was before.

kareel · Nov 15, 2005, 06:06 AM // 06:06

drop percentage is actually closer to 30% of virtually everybody. Earlier today Lion's arch had four districts. Ascalon had 2. Droknar's forge had 3.

... Can we say "dead"?

Most people have left for World of Warcraft by now. I supect some of them will come back. Most might not.

(edited for content)

neoteo · Nov 15, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

i think most people will come back , maybe just on Christmas event ... but dont forget the game will start selling in taiwn and japan in 2006 ...

Bacchus · Nov 15, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Let me start by elaborating on the title. I am 2 months young to GW. I have logged 750 hours (and 23 min.) Have 4 working and one deleted charcter. So while I am no where near as seasoned as most of you I did not buy the game this afternoon. Here now are my questions.

1) How do you make one game both PvE and PvP and please everyone.

2) Why oh why can I have 4 (woohoo) charcters and a storage that can only hold 20 items. Is there a reason that anet can not add a "Guild" storage maybe?

3) And now for the Update. First time I logged on after the update my response to bitching mates was, "hey lets be the first to figure this out and capatlize. After 2 days of rewardless attempts to justify my optimism. I have to ask What the Hell was Anet thinking? Was this update put together over a beer on Friday afternoon? Did anyone think to tell the Henches about it. I have tried PvP and it is not for me, but I enjoy questing with guild mates and most of all Grabing a henche and just seeing what is out there. As of now i find myself grounded. I have been unable to put together a 2 or 3 man team for "sightseeing" because none of them can do any damage, and that damn elementalist gets us all killed. There must be a better way to stop the bots other than punishing the rest of us. Please Anet try try try again.

I look forward to everyone's "kind and positive" feedback. If you just want to slam the post please just go kill some Tengu... Its my first attempt.

P.S anyone have feelings they would like to share about WoW. I bought it today but have not opened yet. Looking for something to enjoy, not tick me off?

prinnydood · Nov 15, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

To answer your first question..which I think is how can you play PvE and PvP on the same character? As you get farther into the game various arenas will become open to you (Lion's Arch, Yak's Bend, Ascalon etc..) You can just go to those arenas and do a little PvP. Or you can make a PvP only character on your account that starts at level 20 and go to the 3 major PvP arenas.

2nd.....I think ANet has plans to put in new guild features and I dont think they're that far off. One of them being a guild storage. The storage right now is alittle small..just gotta get used to managing your stuff.

Also, I was just wondering if an estimated release date for Chapter 2 was out? To be honest...I'm hoping GW receives a good overhaul. The game needs to be more spread out..and not in length.I mean that items should have much larger variations in damage and mods. Making damage ranges and more diverse mods will really make the game more rewarding. And..I know its been discussed even beyond death..but hopefully a raise in the level cap will come along 2nd chapter...just my thoughts..

delfin42 · Nov 15, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

No those skills not destroyed, but they are rendered so ineffective that it is not worth their casting cost, time, and recharge. For example, I used Firestorm today in conjunction with a water ele, now instead of the abysmal 3 hits, I got 6...around the same damage as a phoenix/fireball, now who will choose those skills over fireball and other one hit aoe, especially since you NEED support from snare to do anything?

Then there are those skill that are specifically made for stationary targets, like maelstrom and chaos storm, and those are really destroyed. Then there are the point blank duration aoe like symbol of wrath, and lava font, which already have pathetic durations, and this update shortens their duration even more that its not worth putting on the skill bar.

If you're measuring the utility of a skill solely by how much damage it does, then yes, the AoE spells aren't the same as they used to be. The problem there is not with the spells themselves, but with your TACTICS in using them, because the monsters have adapted. If your strategy is based on the enemies being dumber than a bag of hammers and blindly sucking up damage like sponges, it deserves to be destroyed.

Fire Storm et al., before: Rains damage over an area for 10 seconds.
Fire Storm et al., after: Rains damage over an area for 10 seconds AND tends to repel enemies from that area.

That's not less utility, that's MORE. You're forcing enemy movement and can use that to your advantage.

For example, I call:
* I'm using Maelstrom on Bortak Bonesmelter!
to let my teammates know what I'm doing. As it's casting, my Ranger buddy zings Bortak with Crippling Shot. Zing! He's Crippled, just as the ice drops and he starts taking damage.

Limp, limp, limp. Bortak tries to get out of the range, taking damage all the while. Know what else he's not doing while he's trying to move? Attacking or casting spells.

Ranger buddy says "Hello there, moving enemy," and fires a Hunter's Shot. Zing! Now he's Crippled _and_ Bleeding and still eating the Maelstrom.

Warrior buddy, who's been standing there beating on Bortak, says "Hello there, fleeing enemy" and uses Bull's Strike. Whack! Extra damage + knockdown. Now he's Crippled, Bleeding, knocked down, wounded AND still eating the remainder of the Maelstrom.

Likewise for Lava Font.
Before: Does damage in the casting location for 5 seconds.
After: Does damage in the casting location and tends to repel enemies from that location for 5 seconds.

If I'm an Ele with melee enemies pounding on me and I want a breather, I cast Lava Font. They run one way, I run the other, and aggro is broken, or at least delayed long enough for me to start casting something else or looking for a Warrior to intercept them. If I'm a Monk in the same situation, hey, look over there -- Orion just cast a Fire Storm! I'll run through it and have a pretty good chance that my attackers won't follow me through.

Or you could sit around and grind your teeth over the fact that Fire Storm doesn't hit for all ten seconds any more without help.